Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. Simmons vent rib installed. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. . Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. We have a Learn how your comment data is processed. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Very good condition overall. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. This is a 12 GA pump shotgun manufactured in 1950. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? You are correct. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. Item. Bids. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. 31 12 ga. pump shotgun w/ Simmons ventilated rib - walnut checkered stock & forearm - & 30" I am planning on shooting it at the Grand Nostalgia shoot. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. "SN:561491. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Something went wrong. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. View cart for details. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. He worked with another Winchester researcher. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. That way, were helping small businesses in Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. Manufactured in 1959. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. Alarm calls! Everything functions as it should. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. Can you help me out? I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Instead of buying a gun thats to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. I don't believe it has been fired. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Most books say they did not. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. This little shotgun appears to have never been assembled and and has a 28 inch full choke barrel. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Smith Double Barrel Shotgun $250 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Twenty" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Light Twelve" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning Pump Action Shotgun $150 Manufactured in 1959. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. MAKE OFFER. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. $550 USD. Bore is excellent. Modified choke. later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. THE SHOTGUN HAS A 30' PLAIN BARREL AND IS FULL CHOKE. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. community. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Manufactured in 1959. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. There was no need to shoot ducks at 60 yards. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). For specifics on Copyright Law and 30 Barrel. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." The first was helping the gunsmiths. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. My 1953 duck gun has the factory solid rib. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. It has the long action slide handle. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. The help you need is to get a life. The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is an internal-hammer pump-action shotgun with an external tube magazine. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch.